Saturday, June 27, 2015

Fellow Mormons Who Advocate Same-Sex Marriage©

Since the decision on Friday to legalize same-sex marriage nationwide I have been reading around the web a bit among some of my fellow church members, especially some of the younger set.(1)  For the most part they seem to be very pleased.  A number of them have put on their FaceBook pages a link to Elder Christofferson's earlier statement that it is okay for members to defend same-sex marriage on the web.  They do so as if it is a statement of agreement.  What he actually said is that the church is not going to "force" its members to accept church doctrine, but to use "persuasion" in discussions with them.  It is wrongheaded to think they are just fine because they will not face church discipline.  The clear implication of his statement is that they are still in error.  In fact, the church's position on the matter has not changed and will not change.

With Elder Christofferson’s “permission” it appears that many of them think they are free to debate with the Church and try to change the Church’s position on the issue. In this they are self-deluded or simply ignorant. The fact of the matter is, many of our younger generation simply do not know the doctrine of the church, particularly about marriage and family, as well as they should; so it is largely a matter of ignorance, both of the doctrine and of how the Church operates.

One thing that many members who take pleasure in the Court’s decision do not think about are the long term consequences of it. One young woman I read today was very dogmatic in saying that this decision will not force the Church to perform same-sex marriages. How in the world could she possibly know that?  It was a wish in the form of a declarative sentence. Given the surprises we have witnessed in the last twenty-five years on this and many other issues, her misguided certainty is only exceeded by her hubris. But even if she turns out to be correct on the issue, one thing she ignores is that the LGBT movement will not be content with this “victory” and Mormons and other Christians or other religions who object to same-sex marriages, or who refused to perform them will certainly be labeled as ‘bigots.” You can bet they will not be content to let us have our religious opinions that the practice of homosexuality is a sin. They do not want tolerance, they want the world to embrace the idea, and they will be relentless in seeking to destroy those who disagree with them. 

And there is yet another problem my fellow Church members who applaud this decision have not taken into account and that is what is considered “legal” is soon accepted by the general population as “moral.” Among other problems this creates, it will make proselyting among the LGBT community and those sympathetic with them even more difficult than it is now, because they will be content with their lifestyle as both legal and moral because the majority says it is okay.

The “it is legal, therefore it is moral,” attitude has even wider implications that are not often taken into account. I will just mention one here. When the government interferes with religion and begins to dictate religious policy, doctrine, and practice, historically that has been one of the first steps to Apostasy. I do not fear apostasy of the Church; the Lord has told us that will not happen in this dispensation.  Apostasy from the Church is another matter.  Government interference will deepen apostasy where it already exists, in and out of the Church. Moreover, the polarization is becoming more and more acute and we can expect that pressure will be exerted upon the Church not only by the LGBT community, but eventually the government as well.

We have had forced upon us a serious and gigantic step in our ongoing descent to the lowest common denominator.

Let’s think together again, soon.


1.  I have written two other editorials about this subject which you can access via the links below.  I especially recommend the second one for the youth.  Please take a look at it.


  1. You write well. I believe what you said. And, I still want your conversion story! You have a great story that needs telling!

  2. Thank you!!! I just know that no matter what heavenly father plan is what matters. While these members want to have happiness for the LGBT it just feels wrong even though the laws of the land made it ok.

  3. Great post President.

    I've also seen friends and members in my ward post the article you mention and the tone that goes along with it is perplexing and somewhat disturbing. As I read their posts, I get the sense from their tone that they are relieved somehow. I can almost hear them exhale as if they no longer have to stand for or worry that they might be placed in a uncomfortable situation where they will need to testify of the eternal truth to others and instead just parrot Elder Christofferson's statement, which has been misinterpreted as you pointed out. It can be used as an easy out.

    My concern is that by accepting this fallacy, or merely letting this new development provide us an out from standing for truth, it gives Satan a foothold and greater ability to chip away and persuade us that other doctrines/commandments are just as easy to discard or at the least, not needing to be defended, especially if we don't want to appear judgemental or bigoted.

    1. You make a great point in the second paragraph. Thanks for adding to the conversation.

  4. Well said President Bachman!

  5. Movements go as far as they can. It is the movement leaders' life. It gives them increased political and social standing in society. To the victor goes the spoils, so punishment of their opposition is to be expected.

  6. "With Elder Christofferson’s “permission” it appears that many of them think they are free to debate with the Church and try to change the Church’s position on the issue. In this they are self-deluded or simply ignorant.

    "The fact of the matter is, many of our younger generation simply do not know the doctrine of the church, particularly about marriage and family, as well as they should; so it is largely a matter of ignorance, both of the doctrine and of how the Church operates."

    Very well said, thank you!

  7. This is a great writing of ideas concerning the forward thinking of this time. It is a slite concern of my own however, that you put it "gigantic step in our most ongoing...etc."
    These people who do this desire this "gigantic leaps and bounds" particularly using any and all recognisable application of media to "push" their ideals and using altered "states of affairs" to promote their " so called" issues. It just makes me sick to see Any evil win in any way. I do agree with the rest of your ideas!! :)

  8. In the spirit of open, honest dialogue, I'd like to offer a dissenting voice. And this is a difficult thing to do in Mormon circles, because whenever someone disagrees on this issue, they are seen as being attacking and vehement. I am not. I respect your right to believe in whatever moral system you choose. In fact, I respect your views deeply enough and take them seriously enough to engage with them and think about what you have to say.

    First, I find it interesting that you point out the misguidedness and hubris of the girl whose post you read. You claim that she had hubris because she was certain about the future without evidence. And yet you yourself claim certainty about the future and claim to knowledge that the LGBT community won't stop until they force churches to allow marriages and until everyone accepts that their lifestyle is moral. Do you know the LGBT community? Have you conducted extensive surveys of their opinions or intentions? If not, then you have no knowledge on the matter, and by your own definition, speaking from false certainty is hubris.

    Secondly, why do you fear others arguing against your beliefs when one of the very reasons you cite for acceptance of gay marriage being a problem is the difficulties it will cause in proselytizing? Of course LGBT people and their advocates will continue to argue against your opinions. Humans have been engaging in dialogue with each other on matters of importance as far back as records go. If you fear others making arguments against your beliefs, then why do you continue to knock on their doors?

    To simultaneously wish for a society of openness where people can express their most deeply held beliefs and to argue that others expressing their own beliefs and opinions will inhibit you from doing so is deeply contradictory.

    I hope my disagreement on these issues is not interpreted as a desire to stifle your voice. On the contrary, I hope you keep speaking, because if anything is going to save us, it's open dialogue.

    1. Josh, a little follow-up. On 29 June 2015, the First Presidency and Council of Twelve, issued a statement regarding the Church’s position on same-sex marriage. In that letter they wrote:

      “The Church insists on its leaders’ and members’ right to express and advocate religious convictions on marriage, family, and morality free from retaliation or retribution. The Church is also entitled to maintain its standards of moral conduct and good standing for members.”

      The insistence stated in the first sentence is based on past experience and is intended to suggest we may expect more in the future. One would have to be blind and deaf not to realize that the anticipated retaliation and retribution will come from the gay community.

      I have already experienced this myself. My niece who is lesbian, and with whom I have had virtually no meaningful relationship for 30 or 40 years, cut off all association with me because I simply put a brief quotation on my FaceBook page which asserted that the meaning and purpose of marriage and family can only be determined by God. For her and many LGBTs tolerance only goes one way. We must not only tolerate, but embrace their way of life or there will be retaliation and retribution, but I am not tolerated by her simply because my views differ from hers. This is how the game is played even down to the individual family level.

    2. Josh, I do appreciate you voicing your opinions as it does take courage to voice a different perspective. From my experience most homosexuals are very nice people. I think the concern is that within any group there are militant types that can over time co-op any movement.

      This is a interview of a gay activist who states that she is uncomfortable lying about what the true reason for marriage equality. Now she doesn't represent all homosexuals but there is a significant amount of people that share her ideology, which if it does become the majority will affect the marriages of others.

  9. Josh, I wrote a long reply but Blogspot restricts the length of replies, so I will abbreviate. You have raised a legitimate issue. I do not think my answer will satisfy you, because your comment leads me to believe you are not LDS, and I am writing from a religious point of view to primarily an LDS audience.

    I offer two reasons for rejecting your assertion that unless I have studied the LGBT community and interviewed them thoroughly, that I am guilty of the same hubris as the young woman whom I criticized in the blog. Unlike the young woman whom I criticized, I have the weight of the historical pattern of the activities of the militant movement to teach me what their real motives and objectives and tactics are as stated in my blog.

    Two recent examples illustrate that efforts continue to cause Mormonism and Mormons to capitulate. There will be a conference on the family held in Salt Lake City in July. An organization of the LGBT community plans a conference of their own before in order to protest the one to follow. The leader of that group is quoted in the Salt Lake Tribune as saying they are doing so because the “work is not yet done.” Next, a friend of mine from Canada took issue with my blog, on my FaceBook page. He said they have the same kind of a national law for 10 years and it hasn’t effected him. Yet, that very day I saw two articles by Canadians reaffirming that the militant LGBT community continues the attack..

    Second: the young woman in question is not a prophet, seer or revelator, but Mormonism is led by “prophets, seers and revelators”–men inspired of God to give us the mind and will of the Lord today for guidance regarding living the gospel in our day. They have warned that this issue of sexual preference and the battle to legalize “rights” claimed for it will be one of the major issues we face in the last days. Without going into too much detail and drag this out unnecessarily, Mormon theology places the issue of marriage and family at the very core of the “plan of salvation” as we understand I. Therefore, from our view this will be one of the focal points of Satan’s attacks against God’s church. This is one reason God is warning and preparing us. Therefore, since I believe they are inspired prophets, it is not an act of hubris to declare confidence in what they teach, but one of faith. But, as I said above, the historical pattern and contemporary evidence suggest they are right on target.

    Finally, I do not fear others arguing against my beliefs, I do fear they want to take away my right to have them and to express them freely.